Comments on: Pumping it dry: $200 a barrel and $25,000 per CPU http://blog.springsource.org/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/ The voice of SpringSource Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:31:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Matt Campbell’s Blog » Blog Archive » SpringSource, JBoss and the Modular Application Server http://blog.springsource.org/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/comment-page-1/#comment-114493 Matt Campbell’s Blog » Blog Archive » SpringSource, JBoss and the Modular Application Server Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:50:23 +0000 http://blog.springsource.com/main/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/#comment-114493 [...] I read Rod Johnson’s post on Oracle raising the price of Weblogic a few weeks ago and have been thinking a lot about his recent comments about the SpringSource Application Platform and his predictions for the future of JEE.  The impression I have gotten is that Rod thinks the JEE Application Server is dying.  Perhaps I am naive in disagreeing, but I just don’t see it.  I would agree that the Spring + Hibernate + Tomcat + Web Framework of the Month stack that is very popular meets the need in many cases, but there are instances where a full container is going to fit the bill much better. [...] [...] I read Rod Johnson's post on Oracle raising the price of Weblogic a few weeks ago and have been thinking a lot about his recent comments about the SpringSource Application Platform and his predictions for the future of JEE.  The impression I have gotten is that Rod thinks the JEE Application Server is dying.  Perhaps I am naive in disagreeing, but I just don't see it.  I would agree that the Spring + Hibernate + Tomcat + Web Framework of the Month stack that is very popular meets the need in many cases, but there are instances where a full container is going to fit the bill much better. [...]

]]> By: Jin Chun http://blog.springsource.org/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/comment-page-1/#comment-110421 Jin Chun Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:24:25 +0000 http://blog.springsource.com/main/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/#comment-110421 At some point, the critical slope will be reached on the database side as well. This has been less "accessible" just because of the scope of potential contributions from the wild compared to anything java based, even an app server, still is more accessible than a database kernel. It will be interesting to see how things move. This is going to hit a lot of companies that are currently trying to trim down their IT expenditures and will undoubtedly provide more of an umph to look at alternatives like MySQL, Postgres, Sybase, and others and the support around them. Looks like the BEA pricing has just been launched into the Websphere. The point often missed is that the TCO between these and commercially supported open source, isn't just a factor of 4-5, its much, much, much greater than that. I'd rather hire a few more good developers than pay for the license for medium size box. At some point, the critical slope will be reached on the database side as well. This has been less "accessible" just because of the scope of potential contributions from the wild compared to anything java based, even an app server, still is more accessible than a database kernel. It will be interesting to see how things move. This is going to hit a lot of companies that are currently trying to trim down their IT expenditures and will undoubtedly provide more of an umph to look at alternatives like MySQL, Postgres, Sybase, and others and the support around them. Looks like the BEA pricing has just been launched into the Websphere. The point often missed is that the TCO between these and commercially supported open source, isn't just a factor of 4-5, its much, much, much greater than that. I'd rather hire a few more good developers than pay for the license for medium size box.

]]> By: Kristof Jozsa http://blog.springsource.org/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/comment-page-1/#comment-110403 Kristof Jozsa Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:28:16 +0000 http://blog.springsource.com/main/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/#comment-110403 I think I just liked Spring much better before the marketing machine arrived. Honestly, I think that was the main discriminator compared to the rest.. There's no way back, right? I think I just liked Spring much better before the marketing machine arrived. Honestly, I think that was the main discriminator compared to the rest.. There's no way back, right?

]]> By: Lars Tackmann http://blog.springsource.org/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/comment-page-1/#comment-110398 Lars Tackmann Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:34:40 +0000 http://blog.springsource.com/main/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/#comment-110398 This had to happen, Jetty/Tomcat with Spring is so popular these days that WebLogic is going to see a further decline over the next years. GlassFish is the only other appserver I would use if I have the choice. BEA does have a strong hold in certain middle ware areas, like its tuxedo services (since its 2 phase commit actually works). It is going to be very interesting to see what will happen in the app server over the next few years. I do not see the spring source server going anywhere since it currently does not offer programmers anything special - sure OSGi support is nice, but that is so marginal an edge that it is not going to move anyone. This had to happen, Jetty/Tomcat with Spring is so popular these days that WebLogic is going to see a further decline over the next years. GlassFish is the only other appserver I would use if I have the choice. BEA does have a strong hold in certain middle ware areas, like its tuxedo services (since its 2 phase commit actually works).

It is going to be very interesting to see what will happen in the app server over the next few years. I do not see the spring source server going anywhere since it currently does not offer programmers anything special – sure OSGi support is nice, but that is so marginal an edge that it is not going to move anyone.

]]> By: Jenn http://blog.springsource.org/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/comment-page-1/#comment-110388 Jenn Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:49:54 +0000 http://blog.springsource.com/main/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/#comment-110388 Giant markets don't collapse over night, but certainly closing the size of a market to a few over-priced vendors could be such a catalyst. Consider the affect of ISVs and consulting shops, the average IT firm that comes in and has to integrate 10 different apps on some platform. They, of course, want to charge as much as possible with as least cost to them. Do you think they want to pay for expensive licenses or pass that along to the customer? The past few years have also had a very quick evolution of technology standards.. from struts to JSF, EJB1 to EJB3, from J2EE to JEE, from JAX-RPC to JAX-WS, introduction of SipServlets (not 1, but 2 specs), AOP, etc. Unless "the big 2" are going to offer free upgrades from WAS/WL to the latest to get the new features, there is a very real and compelling reason for developers to seek alternatives, for the very least to use the new technology. Giant markets don't collapse over night, but certainly closing the size of a market to a few over-priced vendors could be such a catalyst. Consider the affect of ISVs and consulting shops, the average IT firm that comes in and has to integrate 10 different apps on some platform. They, of course, want to charge as much as possible with as least cost to them. Do you think they want to pay for expensive licenses or pass that along to the customer?

The past few years have also had a very quick evolution of technology standards.. from struts to JSF, EJB1 to EJB3, from J2EE to JEE, from JAX-RPC to JAX-WS, introduction of SipServlets (not 1, but 2 specs), AOP, etc. Unless "the big 2" are going to offer free upgrades from WAS/WL to the latest to get the new features, there is a very real and compelling reason for developers to seek alternatives, for the very least to use the new technology.

]]> By: Steve Cobbs http://blog.springsource.org/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/comment-page-1/#comment-110326 Steve Cobbs Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:52:50 +0000 http://blog.springsource.com/main/2008/06/25/pumping-it-dry-200-a-barrel-and-25000-per-cpu/#comment-110326 Rod, you've been predicting the death of expensive app servers since 2000, why would we believe you now? :-) Rod, you've been predicting the death of expensive app servers since 2000, why would we believe you now? :-)

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